Conquer & Win
Shares

JT Tran Interview: The Asian Man’s Guide to Meeting and Dating Beautiful Women

My Interview with JT Tran, the “Asian Playboy” and successful entrepreneur who founded The ABC’s of attraction.  The full transcription (unedited) is below if you prefer to read, or click play on the video to watch.

Eddy: [00:09] Welcome to the show, everyone! Today, I have J. T. Tran of The ABCs of Attraction as my guest. He’s also known to some as a playboy.

J. T., welcome to the show.

J. T.: [00:20] Thank you for having me.

Eddy: Certainly. You’ve come straight up from Los Angeles to get with us today. We were talking before the show started and you’d mentioned that Los Angeles is kind of a Mecca of pick up. Why is that–is it just because it’s a big city with lots of sun where everyone’s dressed down?

J. T.: [0:36] Well… it’s Los Angeles! It’s a tier-one city with beautiful women everywhere and the weather’s great. It’s also the origin of Project Hollywood from the game, Levi Strauss. (I used to go up there all the time, to test out my skill when I was completely new, out in the stand in [verify name, sp phon.] Costano Ranch.)

[0:55] People just come here from all over the world… from New York or overseas… to learn [how to] pick up.

Eddy: You mentioned a little bit about your background to that Project Hollywood. (Actually, for our audience who may not be aware of you, could you tell a little bit more about your background and how you got into this whole thing in the first place, especially given your focus on the Asian community?

J. T.: [1:16] I started in January 2004. Basically, I had given up on dating at that point. No matter what I did, I couldn’t get a date to like me–even though in college I was the “big man on campus”.

[1:36] In fact, I had dated this tall, blonde, blue-eyed girl. The thing is, she chose me and I was baffled, completely baffled. [Unclear stmt. Did he mean “subconscious” as opposed to his being “unconscious”?] Man, I was unconscious, completely, when I did. [Unclear] But what it did, later on, sort of dissecting my interaction with her, I unconsciously used some of these [Unclear] psychological techniques–like [inaudible word 2:01] and all these [Unclear] other techniques.

[2:03] But, when I moved to California, I didn’t know anything. I couldn’t get a date “for the life of me”, so I started studying pick up and, later on, I created the Asian Playboy blog (because, I thought, “Okay, what am I? What do I stand for?”). Besides, I’m Asian, and that’s important to me. Also, I’m trying to live this sort-of playboy lifestyle, so I created the blog and it just kind of took off.

Because [unclear] this was sort of an oxymoron, it just really stood out because there’s no such thing as an Asian playboy. (There’s no such thing.) It flew in the face of all these stereotypes and there’s just been this massive following until one day, when this Chinese-Canadian mother called me to help out her son. He’d been harassed by neo-Nazis. I told her, “For three days and three nights I’m going to be the big brother he never had.” and that’s how I came up with the ABCs of Attraction.

This kid was 18 and had never been out. He didn’t really have a lot of friends, either, so I needed to make something very simple, yet well-rounded enough for it to grow with him; something he could comprehend at age 18, as well as later on. Without the ABCs, it had been like this kid got fit with a pair of shoes for an eight-year-old and told to wear that same pair for life. But, that’s not the way life works, so I came up with the ABCs and told him, “You know your alphabet, so let’s add it to the ‘attractive approach’.”

I tried to create The ABCs of Attraction from a holistic point of view: I used things I had learned and those things that hadn’t worked for other people. (You see, the system isn’t meant to be just me, cloning myself on other men. I share a compilation of techniques, both those that worked and those that were unsuccessful.)

[cuts to clip of J.T.’s Boot Camp]

Eddy: [4:10] You mentioned your first student was harassed by neo-Nazis.

J. T.: [4:15] Right.

Eddy: I read an article that, I believe was on your Facebook page (or somewhere else, perhaps) that said Asian men suffer from higher levels of bullying as well as depression levels. Why would that be, particularly, in the Asian-American community?

J. T.: [4:28] There are a lot of factors at play: One is that we’re considered easy pickings (easy targets); another may be our body language. We’re also very clannish and, because we’re the offspring of immigrants, we have a tendency to be quiet and not shake the boat. That leads guys to think we’re easier to pick on. (I certainly suffered a lot of bullying when I was growing up.)

I think there was a year-long study of 100 Philipino men which showed that, over the course of that year, 99% of them (all but one) had been bullied. So, yes, it’s pretty prevalent. I mean, not every Asian man will experience it, but it is pretty prevalent.

Eddy: I think it’s something that’s pretty hard for a lot of people to comprehend if they haven’t been exposed to racism directly. They might see conservative channels coming out of the States that deny the whole thing.

J. T.: [5:41] Exactly.

Eddy: If you’re a black person or a person of another race, like Asian… [incomplete statement]

For example, for myself, here in Canada, I’m not… well, I’m a white guy, pretty much. (But I’m mixed: I’m half Mexican and most people think I’m part Asian.) I’ve heard racist things about Asians or blacks directed at me, which is kind of funny. (I guess you can use black for everybody.)

J. T.: [6:07] (haha)

Eddy: Even when I was a kid of 14 and playing hockey, I had a kid body smack me into the board and call me a “chink” and skate off. (I had no response to this because I’d never heard the term before.) Besides, I’m not Asian and it was soo… wrong.

J. T.: [6:22] Yes.

Eddy: It was wrong on so many levels and I was left dumbfounded. It was my first exposure to racism–and it wasn’t even right race.

J. T.: [6:36] (haha) If someone’s going to be racist, he should at least say the right racial epithet!

Eddy: Exactly; be accurate, please. (It made him look really stupid, although he probably didn’t know it because I didn’t get a chance to respond.)

I’ve seen this here in our society…[incomplete statement] In Vancouver, it seems to come from hobos who yell weird, random, racist stuff when they’re angry at the pharmacist.

Is this something that’s really common or more something that pops up on occasion that’s not direct all the time?

J. T.: [7:19] There are different levels of racism. I grew up in the south. In Texas, as you can imagine, kids are little, dirty, rotten bastards. They have no filter.

I’ve encountered that quite a bit, certainly, and when you’re in the workforce, those sort-of racist acts are something I would call “the bamboo ceiling” where your advancement is (sort of) held back because of who and what you are. It’s not anything that’s apparent or “in your face” and, one good example, actually, is a former client and president of some Fortune 500 company. He had moved from some Asian country as a kid and, growing up, had not felt put upon, exactly. He said that when he was made president, no one had held him down, but no one had helped him up, either. Instead, he’d had to “take himself by the bootstraps” in order to be successful.

Eddy: Oh, okay. So, most of the time it’s more subtle, rather than really direct and “in your face”?

J. T.: [9:17] Yes; as I said, it all depends on your environment. If you’re going to… [incomplete statement]

I once went to this birthday party at a bar and they (the people) were all homegrown (white). It was me and six girls in this little bar outside Ft. Worth. It wasn’t even in a proper city.

We were having a good time in this redneck/biker bar when I got up to get a beer. Once I was apart from my friends, this guy came up to me and grabbed me by the shoulder. He said, “We don’t like your kind here.”

I knew I needed to leave or else they were going to jump me. So I had to leave the girls there because I was going to get beat up by these rednecks. I mean, that really happens. However, if you go to Los Angeles or New York, that’s probably going to be less prevalent, but there’s subtlety to it, right?

[10:05] I remember one time in Toronto I had told all my students to meet inside this club but that they should never enter in groups larger than two guys at a time. (That’s just a basic rule and these were guys who weren’t used to going out.)

[10:19] So my students went out to eat and all six of them arrived simultaneously. (All I could see was that the bouncer was going to bounce them because there was six of them, right?) So with six students, we had to work our magic to get them in. As one student walked away, he overheard the bouncer announce over their radio, “There’s this bunch of Asians trying to get in.” The voice on the other end replied, “We have too many Asians already; don’t let anymore get inside.”

Eddy: Wow.

J. T.: [10:43] Right. So, yes, you get things that are really “in your face” and you get things that are really subtle.

Eddy: I didn’t know there’d be an Asian limit in a club.

J. T.: [10:54] (haha)

Eddy: That one’s really new to me.

J. T.: [10:54] Yes, yes, although part of [unclear “it”] it is on my students who showed up as a group. That was the real instigation for the radio fellow’s remarks about Asians.

[11:11] There is a sort of social hierarchy. Let’s be honest, especially when it comes to the nightlife. You have the celebrity at the top, then the hot girls and then, the hot guys, and so on and so forth. And, when it comes to guys, Asians are the least sexually-desirable, pretty much. (That’s not in all areas of the country, though.)

Eddy: Yes, I’ve seen that, a lot. For a female, targeting an Asian man…[incomplete statement]

Actually, there’s a funny video where two white girls are talking. One girl says, “I’ll never date an Asian.” while an Asian guy stands right beside her, with his mouth hanging open, dumbfounded.

He responds, “Whaddya mean?”

Obviously, it’s a major focus for you. (I know you’ve talked about the Asian community and the kinds of things you help Asian men deal with a lot on your Facebook page.) These are things that are specific to Asians, that white guys don’t face.

What would be the difference here for an Asian man here (other than the sexual hierarchy you’ve already mentioned) in the U.S. as opposed to a white guy, trying to meet hot women?

J. T.: [12:29] You have to understand that this is one of the benefits whenever someone takes coaching from me. (I’m not saying this to “blow my own horn”.)

There are different types of Asians. When we say “Asians” (Asian-Americans), we’re not this monolithic block. Right? It’s not the same as when you say “Mexican”.

When you state, “Asian”, there are different kinds: the immigrants, Asian-Chinese, Asian-Vietnamese, etc. (And a lot of these Asians don’t like each other.)

Eddy: And they have very different cultures, as well.

J. T.: [13:01] Yeah, yeah. Yes. Absolutely. So I have students who are Asian-American. They’re tall, they’re good looking; they have The Fabbi Asian is a lot easier to teach and is a lot more successful with girls than the tall, good-looking Asian-American. I saw this pattern and wondered why that was. And it’s because…[incomplete statement]

[13:43] Because I was born here, I get it. I got called gook and chink and slant eye when I was growing up. So there’s a part of me that would call this internalized racism. There’s a part of me that’s always considered myself to be a second-class citizen and not deserving. I thought if I wasn’t deserving then I was not going to try.

[14:00] It took me a long time to defeat that. So, yes, these tall, good-looking Asian-American guys who have these women hit on them don’t believe it. (I’ve seen this and I’ll say, “Dude! She was throwing herself on you!” and he’ll say, “No, she wasn’t.” I’ll say, “It’s apparent; it’s obvious.”)

[14:17] An Asian immigrant doesn’t even know what a gook or a chink is. (He’s never been called that.) Growing up, he was the apex male; no other guys–white or black–were above him. When he moves here, his problem is not about race; his problem is about language and cultural understanding, so there’s that fear of, “Oh, she’s not going to like me.” (It’s not, “Oh, I’m inferior”, although, I still get that.)

[14:50] For him, all I have to do is teach the skill sets, the techniques. And, going back to one of the things you said, all I have to do is… [incomplete statement] One of the things I’ll do is say, “For you, don’t bother with any kind of direct verbal game.” (It’s completely useless. Completely.)

[15:08] Peace, peace induction… I’ll have this conversation with guys and they’re Chinese and have been in America for six years and studying all this pick-up stuff for six years and I’ll tell them, “Throw it all out the window; it’s completely, fucking useless for you. You’ve studied the wrong thing.” And it is; it’s completely worthless.

[15:28] For most Asians, all that verbal-oriented material is completely worthless. They have to do more body language game or direct style game; or sexualized game. (Not that they shouldn’t learn to interact: they should, just so they can master the different skills sets that indirect offers, but we don’t speak the language.)

[15:39] When it’s your second language, confidence is what speaks, regardless of the country you’re from: whether it’s Asia, Europe or Australia, everybody understands body language.

[16:08] I think that’s one of the primary differences: if you’re Asian and you’re watching this, throw out all that verbal stuff you’ve learned. Probably, it’s the second-to-the-last thing you’ll need to learn.

Eddy: Hmph. By Asian, do you mean from Asian countries or from foreign–

J. T.: [16:23] [interrupts] All Asians. I would say all Asians.

Eddy: Oh, okay.

J. T.: [16:26] Because we do do direct game and do concentrate on body language and sexuality, it helps both types of Asians. For the Asian-American with a lot of limiting beliefs, what’s going to happen when he goes up to a white girl and says, “I think you’re beautiful”? It destroys limiting beliefs right there when she goes up to him and hugs and kisses him, right? Right there, it destroys limiting beliefs.

Eddy: Yes.

J. T.: [16:53] And, if you’re a Fabbi Asian, trying to speak English, can you imagine him trying to do some opinion opener? (I remember having Matador corner me in the lobby when I had two Asian students and they asked, “Why the fuck you give these openers?” And I said, “Just because I like to use direct openers.” Because their accent was so bad…[incomplete statement]

Eddy: Yes.

J. T.: [17:13] But I’ve had this: I just tell my Fabbi students to go up and tell her she’s beautiful and they’ll do this and it works and, if I was to go up to her…[incomplete statement] If you were to go up to her…[incomplete statement] I would say, [imitates stereotypical Asian accent, “You are a fucking whore” said phonetically] “You ah fucking ho!” And it works, right? It’s short, it’s simple and it’s really hard to mess up. Because it’s said in such a sincere manner, it actually forms a synergy with their accent and people… it’s charming to a lot of people.

[17:41] So in that way it’s something that works for both types of Asians.

Eddy: Okay. I know, over here, where I am, there are some Asian guys who actually do very well with women. They don’t seem to have these “limiting beliefs” as well as being a second-class citizen.

I don’t know if it’s a difference between Canadian and American cultures. Maybe there’s some validity to that, but most of the guys I’ve met who are not like the stereotypical Asian guy do really well and just kind of blow through any kind of obstacles. They don’t have a block in their minds that precludes them from going to talk with someone who’s attractive.

J. T.: [18:18] Right.

Eddy: Even one of my former coaches–a Canadian-Asian guy, who actually grew up in a very conservative family–kind of a traditional Asian family, overcame all of that stuff and became really good with everything.

So, advice for Asian-American men or even those who came from another country regarding body language, what would be the best–like you’re already advocating here for body language, what would be an example from you for sexual–upping that physical–[snaps fingers] I lost the word.

J. T.: [19:46] That physical game?

Eddy: Yes, that’s it.

J. T.: [18:59] Universal advice I would give that anybody can do whether you’re Asian or not, but that definitely afflicts Asians a lot more is what I call the Asian poker face. Right?

[19:15] It’s something I stress with my students because communication is happening on multiple levels and it’s not just my words. There’s my facial expressions, my tonality (how I’m saying it) and my body language.

[19:27] The first thing a girl sees is your face. Now, they’ve done studies… witness studies (when it comes to things like jury selection and all that kind of stuff) where they discovered that people of different ethnic backgrounds have a difficult time telling what their race and emotional state are. It’s not because of racism or anything like that; it’s because they haven’t been around black people or white people or Asian people.

[19:55] It was like that with my college girlfriend. We’d go to parties and I’d be so proud because I was the only guy–it was Engineering, so there were about 10 guys for every one girl–and I had a hot girlfriend. And, I was also the only Asian guy with a white girlfriend. Right? So, I’d be there and be really proud, thinking, “Hey! I have a girlfriend” and she’d ask, “Are you angry at me? Why are you upset at me? What did I do?” I would respond, “What are you talking about, babe? I’m cool.”

[20:22] The thing is–and I didn’t realize it at the time, but the way I came off was that I didn’t express myself so I was being “chill”, but my “chill” face looked like this. [SUGGEST: Add descriptive words to paint JT’s facial expression for reading audience to comprehend.] It’s what I call the Asian poker face.

[20:37] So this is one of the things I say for guys who are learning too much of the game: you’re not learning how to control the rest of your message. There are so many channels that she’s reading. For example, if you went up to someone and you said, [inaudible, slurred speech 20:52] as your opener, you’d look like some creepy guy.

[20:55] She’s going to avoid you no matter how good your opener is. If I can get a student to go up to a guy [verify: believe he meant to say “girl” here] and smile and say, “Hi, my name’s J. T.”, it’ll work, right? Even if it’s the simplest, onus opener in the book, it’ll work because of everything else he’s doing correctly.

[21:19] By watching this, I realized it’s not your words that matter, it’s how… [incomplete statement OR add:] [you say them and the tone you use]. [Transcriptionist’s Note: There’s a scene in the movie, “Three Men & a Baby” where Tom Selleck gets chided by Steve Guttenberg’s character for reading the stodgy sports news to the infant. Selleck explains (in his still sing-song-y, lighthearted voice that he’d been reading aloud in) that “It doesn’t matter what I read to her; all that matters is how I say it.”] Beginners watch, average think how; experts think where.

Eddy: Okay, that’s a really good description and, it’s funny that you mentioned the Asian poker face because I had an Asian student recently (from China) and he rarely smiles. Even when I’m talking with him, it’s difficult to get any kind of emotion coming out. So he has difficulty already trying to connect with women because they’re not sure how to read him. They don’t know if he wants to kill them or…[incomplete statement]

J. T.: [21:52] Exactly. Exactly. To him, that sort of Asian culture is normal, but it is one of the most common, initial stumbling blocks. If he’d simply smile it would increase their open rate by double, at least. If he’s getting an astronomically-low open rate, it’s probably because of that. If he was getting even the low average rates of a white guy, who doesn’t even know game, right? So, if he could do that, he would probably parody every other average to low guy. That’s just fun and games.

[22:38] For now, he’s here… and they’re here, as opposed to being average. So if he can get that, just so he can reach parody.

Eddy: Okay. Let’s tackle one or two Asian stereotypes, since we’re on the Asian theme, here for this show, basically. What is your opinion, since I’ve seen Asian men making comments about this online… [incomplete statement] Actually, you’ve already touched on this a little bit, about second-class citizens even if they’re born here.

They write that they feel as though women will not like them; that white women will not like Asian men. Is that statement valid at all?

J. T.: [23:33] Right. Well, you have to look at a couple of different points of view. From an objective point of view, where race doesn’t exist, sure. There are multiple studies. I could quote [to] you [from] so many studies from online dating where Asian men are the lowest of any kind of ethnic group who get responses.

[23:54] When you think of it from the student’s point of view (like “the man on the street”), it serves no purpose to dwell on that. I used to be that way. I was a college kid who looked around and saw people dating Asian girls and Asian girls telling people that they, “would never date an Asian guy!” (That would make me so angry when I was in college.)

[24:29] But all that does is undermine your confidence. It’s like a virus; it kills you. Concentrating on that and trying to go online and rant about it serves no purpose because the only way to attract women and people of different races is to show races connecting… and intimately connecting. They have to be that change. [Actual quote: “You must be the change you wish to see in the world.” – Mahatma Gandhi] They have to show other women that Asian men are attractive.

[25:01] Here’s the thing, though. People unconsciously act on their racism [with statements such as,] “Oh, I’m never going to date a guy who’s under five feet six inches.” (Blah, blah.) [NOTE: Height is NOT racism!]

[25:06] In real life, it’s so much easier for me to overpower any kind of stereotype by going out there [UNCLEAR: where is “out there”?], by being whatever. [UNCLEAR] (I always say I would love to be tall, dark and handsome, but I can settle for being short, stubby and smooth.) [again, this is NOT racism] So, is there absolute truth to that? Yeah, sure; it doesn’t help us as individuals, but, also, we, as Asian men, also need to take ownership of that stereotype, too, because we’re doing it to ourselves!

[25:39] I have this other story about one of my girls… [interrupts self] Actually, I’ll tell you this other story about one of my wing girls. She is the Playboy Playmate of the Year 2010–Claire Sinclair. [NOTE: WRONG Year. Sinclair was OCT 2010 Playmate of MONTH; named Playmate of YEAR a year later, in 2011.] (She used to work for me before she became all famous and all that.)

[25:56] She [Sinclair] lived in Alhambra, which is 80% Asian and said, everyday, that people would hit on her. White guys, black guys, Asian guys… whatever. Remember, she lived in a predominately Asian neighborhood and, in the 18 years (or so) that she lived there, you know how many Asians hit on her in school and just walk-a-round? None. [Eddy, verify please: in previous sentence JT states Asian men DID hit on Sinclair. Did they or didn’t they?] None.

[26:22] The reason, a lot of times women–Asians think that–Asian guys think that white women will never date them is because the more stereotypes that white women have of Asian men is Asian men only date Asian women. They [White women] think, “Well, he’s cute, but he will never date me.” Asian men think, “Well, she will never look at me; so, she will never date an Asian guy.”

[26:49] So it’s this vortex of misunderstanding. And, again, it’s our responsibility, as men, to go up there [UNCLEAR: where?], not really to seek that first signal, but to make that first step. Right? Asian men have to convince white women that they are viable dating partners.

[27:06] Like I said [UNCLEAR: when?], about 90% of the girls I’ve dated had never dated an Asian guy. I am their first and you just have to accept that. It’s not that hard; a lot of women (in real life) don’t really have that initial barrier against…[incomplete statement] They don’t have four…[incomplete statement] (like the Fortune 500 that I was talking about). There’s no girl–or, there’s a rare girl–but the majority of girls are not going to help out an Asian guy. Right? They don’t necessarily just come out and actively say no to us, just because we’re Asian; it’ll happen every “once in a blue moon”, and it’s happened to me… but most of them [white girls] will be receptive–if you approach them correctly.

Eddy: Okay. So it’s almost giving them an opportunity to like you or not. It’s almost like any other approach; you don’t know if a woman’s going to like you or not if you don’t present yourself and give her the option. Right?

J. T.: [28:02] Exactly.

Eddy: It seems a lot of [inaudible word 28:05] … in the Asian community… [incomplete statement] They’re not even presenting themselves as options to others. They assume, “Well, she’s not going to like me, so why try at all?” (…Are you frozen? Oh, you’re frozen. )

[silence 28:17 to 28:36]

Eddy: Oh, there you are. Are you unfrozen; can you hear me?

J. T.: [29:41] Oh, yeah; I can see you fine. I could see you, but you couldn’t see me.

Eddy: Ohh… okay, okay. I saw you [just as] a frozen picture there. (Now, you’re coming in a little bit blurry, but you’re coming back.)

The recording’s still going, right?

Hmm… What were we talking about? (haha)

J. T.: [28:59] Oh, uh…

Eddy: Asian men, as themselves… as an option.

J. T.: [29:07] Oh, I was about to make a real quick comment.

Eddy: Oh, go ahead.

J. T.: [29:12] Speaking of which, it goes back to what I was saying [about] how Asian-Americans, who are born here, have higher limiting beliefs. If I take an immigrant Asian, he’ll do better because he doesn’t go online and think all those things that you just described, such as white girls not liking him. That’s because he just doesn’t have the skill set. These Americans think white girls don’t like them and they believe it so they don’t do anything. And Wayne Gretzky said, “You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take.”

[29:43] Yeah, these Asian guys are not taking shots; yeah. Of course white girls don’t like him because he’s not taking a shot. But, if I sent in an Asian–like, Fabbi-Asian student, with his Fabbi-Asian clothes and his Fabbi-hair and his Fabbi-teeth, and his Fabbi assets, he can get her, right? And I would see these guys outside the club at night and I would think, “What the fuck’s going on?” All these Asian guys would have all these white girls and we’d have nothing, right?

[30:12] But you have to take those shots; you have to get over those limiting beliefs.

Eddy: Okay. Do you find that your students are going to you–well, obviously, they’re going to you because they want to do better–is it…[incomplete statement] Because, guys, in general, at least around here, anyway, in North America, guys, in general, aren’t very good at approaching–because they don’t approach. Right? That’s a big complaint over here in Vancouver. Women always say guys don’t approach here; when they do, it’s usually some creepy guy who’s doing it properly, right?

J. T.: [30:39] (haha)

Eddy: Is that more prevalent with Asian men? Or is that kind of “even across the board”, that men, in general, don’t have the balls to go talk to women?

J. T.: [30:49] Well, you have to realize again, that it kind of depends on which type of Asian you’re discussing. I know that immigrant Asians (here) who, because we’re immigrants, we’re taught to study and to work really hard and to go to college and get the job, and then, finally, when you’re about 26 and established, then you’re supposed to auto-magically have a wife. (haha)

[31:16] That’s kind of a joke among Asian-Americans. Mom says, “No play dates.” (Growing up.) “No play dates. Study.” And then when the child’s 24, she wonders why she doesn’t have–she’s not a grandmother. Right?

[31:26] Somewhere along the line you have to socialize, but we’re taught not to. We’re discouraged from it in a lot of ways.

[31:36] If you talk about the Asian-Asian, you have to realize that you have a lot of countries that are transitioning from third-world to first-world, so you’re going from a dating culture that is more old school, obviously; arranged marriages that is still very common. It’s more like the mail-order bride, where they’ll just set someone up with some village wife because he’s working hard and not going out there and dating actively.

[32:07] So, in a lot of ways, dating technology, so to speak, is (very) stuck in the past. And it is changing, slowly. It had to change when you consider that there are 24M missing Chinese women–and not just in China because of female infanticide; there’s also Korea and Japan (and all that kind of stuff). So the dating has to change, but it’s doing it very slowly.

Eddy: Okay. Okay, I can see that.

You reminded me of something I saw on Vice , actually, though I can’t remember which country it was. It was over in the [verify name, sp phon] G-kastan (I’m probably mispronouncing that.) But it was somewhere near Russia or Mongolia, maybe, where the people looked Asian or like kind of a mix, maybe from the past heritage from the Mongolian-Asians. But people look Asian, anyway. [NOTE: Some of the Asian-looking ethnicities in Eastern Russia include Buryat, Altai, Tyva, Yakut, Chuckha.] I remember it was a totally fucked-up story where they would kidnap wives. If a guy wants to be married to somebody, he’d kidnap her and bring her to his family, who tries to convince her to marry him.

J. T.: [33:15] (haha)

Eddy: I guess [that] officially, it’s illegal, but police are not enforcing the law and, literally, in the Vice special, they actually showed women being kidnapped for weddings.

J. T.: [33:30] Wow…

Eddy: It’s crazy; it just blows my mind, I can’t even believe that exists. These guys just literally pick them up and run into a car. [ouch!] A full-on kidnapping. And people on the street won’t do anything. And this is like a traditional marriage.

Have you heard about this one? Or have you seen that Vice story?

J. T.: [33:44] No! No! I’m not necessarily familiar with that, but I know there’s a pretty large mail-order bride population, like with Philipino women–they just ship them off, to Viet Nam, and places like that where there’s a very sparse population.

I know that Russia was considering legislation to make it illegal to marry Chinese guys because they would be crossing… [incomplete statement] They’d get Russian brides, right?

Eddy: Wow. Funny you mentioned Russians, too; you were talking about the Asian poker face. I see that on a lot of Russian guys, as well. (I’ve had a lot of Russian students and they also vary …[incomplete statement]

J. T.: [34:23] (haha)

Eddy: You don’t know.

J. T.: [34:26] That stoic expression.

Eddy: Very stoic. They look very stern. You don’t know if they want to kill you or what’s happening, right?

J. T.: [34:32] Right, right.

Eddy: Kind of funny.

And, with the mail-order brides… [incomplete statement, changes course mid-sentence] Actually, let’s talk about white guys and Asian girls.

J. T.: [34:41] Arright.

Eddy: So, this is obviously “a thing”with you, that we see these couples a lot–

J. T.: [34:47] Sure, sure.

Eddy: [cont.] … and you’re also the type who’s trying to change it around and make it Asian men and white girls. Whaddya call it? The A.M….

J. T.: [34:55] W.F.? Latino, okay?

Eddy: Oh, yeah. Why is it “a thing”? Why is it a prevalent thing that Asian women and white guys always seem to be… [incomplete statement]

(Oh, you’re frozen. Oh, you’re not frozen. Okay. Cut that out.)

Why is it “a thing” that Asian women and white guys always seem to be the common thing for couples to occur this way?

J. T.: [35:23] Well, there are a lot of reasons: from Hollywood and stereotypes and, do you want historical reasons like Colonialism? China being colonized by Britain; and Viet Nam by France, and so on and so forth, where you kind of have this established hierarchy, where white is at [the] top.

That’s kind of carried over so you’ll get a lot of these Asian girls with these internalized belief systems. For example, when they marry, they want to marry up. Or–and I see this quite a bit–they’ll sleep with white guys and black guys but they only want to marry Asians. See? They’re going to sleep around, go on the cock carousel and then, they’ll settle down. Right? But they won’t want to date Asian men who they’re going to marry, but they’re going to give a pussy to everybody else.

Eddy: (haha)

J. T.: [36:10] And it is because of the certain globalized beauty standards where white is considered more beautiful so you have these (let’s say) white guys, too, who are becoming very frustrated with this modern-day feminism where they have to treat women as equals, too. This is terrible, right? So they think, “Okay, these Asian women, they’re gaining, like–what is it? Apocalypse Now when the Vietnamese hookers who say, “Oh, Two dollah make you hollah.” (They’re okay with that.).

Eddy: (haha)

J. T.: [36:48] They don’t care if she barely speaks English; they want someone who’s completely subservient, someone who can service their yellow fetish.

Eddy: Hmm.

J. T.: [36:59] Right. Someone who is third-world will treat like a God because he’s this big man. But, in reality, he’s just like some nerdy, awkward, white guy who couldn’t be successful with a white girl.

[37:12] You see this all the time. The nerdy guys… [incomplete statement] You see this a lot in the Pei Wei community. Some white instructor says, “A-ha, …your Asian women…[inaudible words 37:19] … ones.” He marries them. (It happens quite a bit.) It’s just that they have their skills by practicing on these Asian women, and you see that quite a bit. But, whatever, there are forces at play that create that.

[37:38] I know that, on the reverse hand, a lot of people might say that that’s kind of what I do, but to me, I try to humanize both white girls and black girls to Asian men because the perspective is that Asian guys think white women are [gestures] up here. Right?

[37:55] Or, they’ll get so angry that they’ll say, “Oh, white bitches; I’m ‘n-uh keel the white men” (and all that kind of stuff).

[38:00] So I want to humanize that [inaudible word 38:03] … and I want to show white men and black women that Asian guys are cool or masculine. We’re their equal. And I want to show Asian men that these white girls (and stuff) are not above them or below them. They’re equal and they can be an equal opportunity dater.

[38:24] It’s something that’s kind of a pain point in our community because you see it all the time. (What is it?) I think that, statistically, Asian women are three times more likely to out-marry to a white guy than any other race.

[38:35] So, it’s very popular…

Eddy: That’s a big number. Yes.

J. T.: [38:39] Yes, well, it is what it is. I mean, it’s kind of changed over time… just a little bit, but not any really big, global trend, right? Because you still have people just shipping in Asian wives and stuff like that.

Eddy: Okay. Will we see any difference… [incomplete statement] Obviously, women who are raised in the United States and Canada… [incomplete statement]

I kind of see it because I’m dating… [incomplete statement] My girlfriend is Asian-Canadian. Right? And, I see no difference with her, at all, between her and a white girl, culturally. (The way they behave and this kind of stuff, other than the way she looks, obviously.) But I do see a big difference between women who come from Asian countries and white girls, right?

J. T.: [39:28] Right.

Eddy: [cont.] In their confidence level, in the way they behave… My girlfriend is not submissive at all. She leads a regular life.

J. T.: [39:32] Right.

Eddy: So I might say, “Oh, my little Asian girlfriend…[inaudible 39:36 as J. T. laughs simultaneously]

J. T.: [39:38] Hello, Geisha! (haha)

Eddy: I know. She’s not Geisha; there’s none of that crap. She won’t put up with any of that bullshit, right?

J. T.: [39:42] Right.

Eddy: I’m just dating somebody who, basically, looks Asian, although her family actually is from an Asian country.

I had a point… but I don’t have a point anymore (haha).

J. T.: [39:57] Was it, what is the difference between Asian women?

Eddy: Oh, yeah, let’s go with that. I–I lost it.

J. T.: [40:03] Sure! Sure. Asian women who are Americans (who are born here) you might find are more confident, typically, for sure, or more social, at least. Then, for those who are immigrant Asian women, you’ll definitely find that they are more clannish, more click-ish, where you have to go and befriend their guys, befriend their friends first, because they’re going to be more resistant to outside influence unless they’ve been introduced.

[40:32] In my experience, if she’s Asian and she’s with white girls, treat her like another white girl. There’s really almost no discernible difference. But, if she’s with a bunch of Asian girls, just be prepared for that Asian click (haha). (You know that Asian click that just makes you think, “Oh, no”?) So be prepared for that; that’s when you do more classic indirect as the direct style wouldn’t work as effectively when they are [in] a click.

Eddy: Okay; how–if you’re teaching to… …

… you’re focusing mos…

… when you’re teaching…

and as opposed…

?

J. T.: [41:18] I like to… One of the biggest differences is just the result of “the get” is just a lot more instantaneous and, quite frankly, bigger than with my Asian students. This is because all my Asian students are coming in with no baseline to speak of; they’re literally coming in, having had no social life nor ever having been on a date and things of that nature.

[41:43] I have this one white guy coming in who is socially normal–or maybe a little bit below–and I don’t have to build him up from nothing. I give him these techniques and, all of a sudden, he’s soaks them up. I told him I wanted him to get a threesome one weekend and the following weekend he got a foursome. It was nuts.

[41:59] It was like giving somebody the codes to the nuclear football and it was because he just concentrated on the technique, not the limiting beliefs. He could do all the sexual stuff to really rattle you and escalate and get the girl, rather than having to do the more abstract because he didn’t think himself out of success. He didn’t get in his own way; he just didn’t know what to do.

[42:20] Now, like the white guys, black guys. I’ve had boot camps where I didn’t have a single Asian guy; just white guys and black guys. And I’m cool with that. Whatever. With them it’s just a game, pure gaming. I don’t have to “hold their hands” as they mentally break down and cry. Right? (They all have that.)

[42:54] I guess one of the differences, at least for me as a coach that, when it comes to white guys and black guys, I can just be a coach, whereas, with Asian guys, I also have to be a therapist. (haha)

Like I said, for me, in these boot camps, I wish I could have all these other students because it seems so easy, right? I love it because it’s more than just a job for me but it is completely emotionally exhausting. We call it Mondays, black Mondays because we are wiped out completely. We spend the entire weekend just making sure they don’t crack.

[43:37] A lot of these guys have complete horror stories about growing up repressed and just emotionally stunted. They hold resentments against white people, resentments against their families, resentments against women, resentments against white women, and resentments against Asian women. I guess that’s what “half the battle” is.

[43:58] I can teach anybody the techniques, regardless; it’s giving them what they need to heal emotionally.

[silence 44:06 to 44:10]

J. T.: [44:10] Yes.

[silence 44:10 to 44:21]

J.T.: [44:21] (haha)

[silence 44:21 to 44:31]

J. T.: [44:31] Yes.

[silence 44:31 to 44:47]

J. T.: [44:47] Yes, yes; I mean, his Facebook page seemed like a tall, good looking type. He was a [verify term 44:K-pop. He worked a lot on his long time on his look and you get that. You get that little level of jealousy. You wonder, “How is this little, short guy being successful when I’m not?

[45:12] Obviously, the answer is “I put in that work.” When I was an engineer, I was holding down a 9 to 5 job but I was also going out four to six nights, facing my fears. And sometimes, those nights were so bad, I would go home and I would cry.

But the next day, I went out again.

[45:28] Here’s this guy, doing the lowest risk thing he can do–which is working on his appearance, which I think you should do. It helps a lot, but he was spending a lot of money making himself look good, but he wasn’t willing to put his balls “on the line”. So it just builds up to this resentment where he wanted to learn from me but he was just so angry that I would get results and he wasn’t. That’s because he wasn’t willing to go through the pain. He was willing to go through that fire of rejection, embarrassment and humiliation. Here he was, letting his resentments fester on the inside while he stayed home and combed his hair in the mirror. (haha) …Just let that festle, like a poison.

Eddy: [46:21] I guess he found out the hard way that it didn’t work. That brushing his hair nicely wasn’t enough?

J. T.: [46:29] Yes, you have to “put yourself out there”. You have to be willing to get your balls kicked in a couple times.

Eddy: Yes, but that work ethic is huge. Like you said, you’d go out five or six nights (or whatever) while you were working a full-time job.

J. T.: [46:44] Mm-hmm, yes.

Eddy: I know, for myself, when I started and had to learn how to walk up to a woman on the street to introduce myself. That was a huge challenge. And, there was that work ethic, as well. I was obsessed with the idea and thought, “I have to learn this.”)

I would go out, day after day, and, literally, do nothing but walk around in circles in the whole city. (That’s a lot of walking.) That was extremely frustrating but I couldn’t give up, because I had this idea in my head that was going to learn it and discover whether or not I was good at it.

I just kept going until I’d finally made my first approach which was, I guess, a major game changer (for my whole life, actually).

J. T.: [47:24] Right, right.

Eddy: Were you ever able to get through to him or did he just remain bitter?

J. T.: [47:27] Nah, I think he blocked me. (haha) He was just unfriendly at me, and stuff like that. Seeing these girls, he would say, “Fuck it.” (haha) He didn’t want that image of an Asian guy with a white girl. It wasn’t him, right? That’s ironic, kind of, because you need to see that to change that thought process slowly. But, again, this is what happens to some guys: they over think it and let that poison fester. I can’t help guys who don’t want to be helped.

Eddy: Mm-‘kay. I think I’ve seen that, though; like when some people have what others want. For example, one guy has a nice car and works really hard, and the other [second] guy wants the nice car, the second guy wonders, “Why does that [the first] guy have a nice car?”

It’s just because of the actions the other guy took which were different enough but one guy worked on the right things and the other guy didn’t. There’s that jealousy, though; that, “Why am I not also awesome like that person? Look at all the stuff that I do?”

J. T.: [48:28] Yes.

Eddy: Right?

J. T.: [48:35] Yes, you bet.

Eddy: So, in closing, for all the Asian and Asian-Canadian communities out there–or, just say, men, in general–what would be the best way to start [with women] when you’re starting right from the bottom, “from scratch”?

J. T.: [48:46] I always tell everybody that they want to be successful because they’re Asian, not in spite of it; that they–(I know some people go through this growth when it’s pure–like whites acting white, but it’s more. It’s not about acting white, but acting and understanding who they are.) Also, being proud of who they are and not being ashamed of being either. (I get that, a lot.)

They also have to work in unison to make sure their thought process is correct and that their really bad, limiting beliefs are slowly disassembling.

[49:23] The first step is recognizing and writing down their internal negative thoughts. (I thought that being short was one; another was feeling that Asian girls wouldn’t like me. Over time, I changed that, but it was through action.) So, the first step is recognition and writing it down.

[49:41] Then, obviously, you need to take action because simply thinking about it is not going to change anything. They need to be aware of the problems and then take action. Probably the easiest thing an Asian-American or an Asian person, in general, can do is to get out there and just say, “hello,” to ten people and make eye contact and smile. (Say “cookies” and your mouth forms an actual smile, which will make their approach so much easier.)

[50:10] Fully expand their comfort zone. For some guys, the idea of saying “hello” to anybody is terrifying because they don’t do that. Culturally, they remain within their bubble and they don’t go outside that bubble which is why we have all these kinds of Asian clicks.

[50:26] Smiling, making good eye contact, facial expressions–that’s really important, really important. It can be as simple as saying, “hi”. Don’t spend too much time on verbal game because the oldest and most successful pick-up line in the world is, “Hi, my name’s J. T.”

Eddy: That’s great. So, it sounds like a lot of focus on love and self love, and just taking action–doing something.

Given your basic advice about going out and saying, “hi” to people, this is the same kind of advice I give my students, as well. It’s funny how difficult it is for guys to follow through with that, just for that very basic level of going out and making it a morning thing.

J. T.: [51:10] Mm-hmm.

Eddy: Or starting a conversation with a store clerk.

It’s really, really basic, but so many people have resistance to it, it’s almost like…[incomplete statement] It’s a subtle thing, too, but getting used to being social, in general, has always been almost like, perhaps, they’re not going to get the instant results, so why bother giving that all, why bother having conversations or saying “hello”, or making that eye contact with other people, even though it has a big impact.

J. T.: [51:35] Yes, exactly; it’s like socializing hasn’t been internalized, yet. I think… what is it they say? That it takes 28 daily repetitions for a muscle memory link to be formed.

They can’t simply go out one day and say, “hello” and all of a sudden, you’re used to that. They have to do it over time because, as Aristotle said, “We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an action; it is a habit.”

Socializing is a habit that they do every day until they get to the point that when they don’t say, “hi” to a pretty girl, they feel weird. At that point, they’ve internalized it [socializing] so they feel awkward when they don’t use it.

[52:15] Here, a lot of guys haven’t internalized the concept of just being social just to be social.

Eddy: Yes, no, I like that you mentioned that, too. When they reach that point where it’s weird not to say “hello” and it’s weird not to start a conversation, they question themselves, “Oh? I didn’t say, “hi”?

J. T.: [52:32] It feels sad.

Eddy: It feels wrong. That’s what to point guys to because now they’re “head of the pack” and it’s easier for them to stretch themselves a little bit further and approach somebody who’s really attractive.

If they feel weird or socially unacceptable it’s so powerful and you don’t say “hello”. These kinds of skills actually become ingrained habits when they’re internalized. It’s so powerful on a long-term basis. Maybe there are not instant results when they say “good morning” to somebody but when they’re doing it all the time, it turns out major results.

J. T.: [53:06] Exactly.

Eddy: Awesome. Well, thanks, J. T., for coming on the show; I really enjoyed having you.

If somebody wanted to get in touch with you for coaching or for any questions, where should they go?

J. T.: [53:13] First of all, Eddy, thank you for having me on the show. I appreciate that. If they want to reach me they can just go to my Web site at www.abcsofattraction.com. Or ABCs of Attraction. We also have a toll-free number: 1-888-689-GAME (4263). Or they can send us an E-mail to: support@abcsofattraction.com.

Eddy: You snagged a good phone number there with the 1-800-GAME, basically.

J. T.: (haha) Yes.

Eddy: All right; I will be including a link for anybody who’s interested, as well. (Or anyone who’s too lazy to type those letters in.) They can just make a click and go straight to you.

J. T.: [53:51] Awesome.

Eddy: Thanks, a lot, again, J. T. and thanks, everyone, for joining.

/ end /

[54:02]

About the Author Eddy Baller

I'm the founder of Conquer & Win, and since 2011 I've been helping guys get into great relationships, build their core values as men, and become confident. I'm published on Lifehack, Order of Man, POF, Psychcentral and many more. I want to help you become a better man and live to your full potential. Feel free to contact me here.

follow me on:
>